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joe biden simply dismantled the romney/ryan world view. but also talk about how the right wingers are trying to make a big deal out of joe biden's smile. so what? i would have been outright laughing in paul ryan's face. joe biden was fed up and who could blame him? >> with all due respect, that's a bunch of malarkey. >> and why is that so? >> because not a single thing he said is accurate. >> this is a bunch of stuff. >> what do you mean a bunch of stuff? >> it's simply inaccurate. >> it's irish. >> thanks for the translation. okay. >> malarkey. a bunch of stuff. i love it. i love it. biden systematically took apart ryan's arguments for less government, let's accountability, let's community. it got so bad, paul ryan was driven to drink. literally. he went back to that cup of water over and over again. by our last count, at least 21 time. what's the matter there, mr. ryan? got a little cotton mouth? last night the romney/ryan effort was exposed as a shield for the extreme far right and vice president biden drove that point home again and ag
joe biden simply dismantled the romney/ryan world view. but also talk about how the right wingers are trying to make a big deal out of joe biden's smile. so what? i would have been outright laughing in paul ryan's face. joe biden was fed up and who could blame him? >> with all due respect, that's a bunch of malarkey. >> and why is that so? >> because not a single thing he said is accurate. >> this is a bunch of stuff. >> what do you mean a bunch of stuff? >>...
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and the romney ryan one of the vents during the summit your way out the romney ryan plan obviously has holes in it and when you talk about these things and the reasonable thing that we can talk about is that when they say they're going to close loopholes they really haven't addressed specifics and there's a reason for that this is politically toxic to try and do that because there's a lot of industries and a lot of voters who are waiting so they see the reality they don't have the same time though the same time you can get all you want but at the same time when it comes to the path to prosperity i think that ryan is being honest there with the prospect of a lot some place but ryan's way out there and it's plain but that's that's that's when you're running on there's no there's no hollowness to the reality that we are heading towards a fiscal cliff and the only ticket this really looking to address that right now is the republican ticket there's no question of us as you say and this is part of the problem the problem that you have is you have the president who's laid out specifically wa
and the romney ryan one of the vents during the summit your way out the romney ryan plan obviously has holes in it and when you talk about these things and the reasonable thing that we can talk about is that when they say they're going to close loopholes they really haven't addressed specifics and there's a reason for that this is politically toxic to try and do that because there's a lot of industries and a lot of voters who are waiting so they see the reality they don't have the same time...
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unfortunately, the burden is on romney and ryan. we already know what to expect with biden and with obama. but unfortunately, romney and ryan have the burden to say we can change the trajectory of the conversation of what's going on in the country and do it well, and that didn't happen with clarity and conviction last night. >> i half agree with carol on that point. but the other part of the equation -- >> i don't think you can agree with that point, because the only poll i have seen about undecided was done by any major network was cbs and it was pretty clear who won the debate amongst uncommitted voters, ryan 31%, biden 50%. he smashed him which was my reading of it in the moment. >> look, people are voting right now in ohio. so if you've made up your mind in ohio and you watched last night's debate, you were energized and went out to the polls and voted, that makes an impact on the election. governor romney can't win without ohio. there are, there is a narrow sliver of voters that are still in play in some of these states. i thin
unfortunately, the burden is on romney and ryan. we already know what to expect with biden and with obama. but unfortunately, romney and ryan have the burden to say we can change the trajectory of the conversation of what's going on in the country and do it well, and that didn't happen with clarity and conviction last night. >> i half agree with carol on that point. but the other part of the equation -- >> i don't think you can agree with that point, because the only poll i have...
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you had paul ryan embracing the across the board tax cut mitt romney is running on. he was pressed by martha, who did an excellent job exactly specifically you do to pay for that tax cut, totally evaded that. what happened was as happened on other issues, joe biden got frustrated. you saw biden, he variously was laughing, smiling, got angry at times. i think there were times at which that demeanor did not serve him well. ryan did not get flustered. did have some republican political strategists who i talked to during the debate thought ryan looked a little bit smug at times. ryan, of course, is young, he has to worry about looking like the junior varsity against the older guy. bottom line, i don't think anybody dominated the debate but i thought ryan did well and i think basically what we've done is set the table for the debate next week with obama and romney. that is going to determine what the next pivot in this race is. >> john, just to bring up a couple of points. we did have an informal poll on cnbc, about 3,000 people wrote in, based on what they have been writ
you had paul ryan embracing the across the board tax cut mitt romney is running on. he was pressed by martha, who did an excellent job exactly specifically you do to pay for that tax cut, totally evaded that. what happened was as happened on other issues, joe biden got frustrated. you saw biden, he variously was laughing, smiling, got angry at times. i think there were times at which that demeanor did not serve him well. ryan did not get flustered. did have some republican political strategists...
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that's not where mitt romney is. so poor paul ryan. he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. >> don't forget big bird there, jonathan. remember governor romney did give us a specific, he's going to get rid of big bird. >> that's impressive. ari, for sheer bravado in the absence of any details, paul ryan surely wins the oscar because he claims six studies prove that their 20% tax cut will be revenue neutral and won't increase the deficit. but i have to tell you, three of those six studies were blog posts or op-eds and one of them was paid for by romney for president, inc. that's the most elegant mendacity i've ever seen, isn't it? >> i would love to have their campaign promote my blog. if each post is a study, you can really get on a roll there. i'm really glad you're spotlighting this, martin, because this is the biggest problem they have on the domestic front. they've outlined these 20% cuts for everyone, that's a 20% cut in taxes for the 1%, and then they've said but don't worry, it's not really going to cut the taxes on the ric
that's not where mitt romney is. so poor paul ryan. he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. >> don't forget big bird there, jonathan. remember governor romney did give us a specific, he's going to get rid of big bird. >> that's impressive. ari, for sheer bravado in the absence of any details, paul ryan surely wins the oscar because he claims six studies prove that their 20% tax cut will be revenue neutral and won't increase the deficit. but i have to tell you, three of those...
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romney said today under duress that the romney/ryan position is the romney/ryan position, there's no difference between them. and he said you'll hear more about it at the vice presidential debate tomorrow. i bet you will. joining us now is steve kornacki, co-host of "the cycle." thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> the democrats have been aggressive in driving their campaigning on this issue, because they think that's a key issue for locking up the women's vote. with this walkback, this attempted and failed walkback that happened within the last 24 hours from the romney campaign, do you think that's going to have an impact there? >> yeah. there's some interesting data that came out in the last few days which i think is what was initially behind what mitt romney said, taking a more moderate position on abortion. first you had this poll that came out in ohio, showing obama ahead of romney by four. the gender gap in this thing was astounding. among men, romney had a 16-point lead in ohio. among women, 60-38, obama. that is like a 38-point gender gap. i have not seen someth
romney said today under duress that the romney/ryan position is the romney/ryan position, there's no difference between them. and he said you'll hear more about it at the vice presidential debate tomorrow. i bet you will. joining us now is steve kornacki, co-host of "the cycle." thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> the democrats have been aggressive in driving their campaigning on this issue, because they think that's a key issue for locking up the women's...
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isn't ryan supposed to be the brain of the romney campaign and we're lacking specifics? i mean, wasn't that a poor explanation? >> well, yes, and let me give you his idea of a study. he said there are six studies. three of those six studies are blog posts and one of them is by a research assistant at aei, which is one of the big ideological marketing organizations that pitch you their view of the world just the way companies advertise other products. but blog posts, those are studies that prove things? that's hilarious. >> why doesn't the plan add up? why doesn't his so-called plan for america, the 20% cut, add up? where's the flaw? >> well, it does add up for the very rich. if you listen very carefully to what romney always says, he says he's going to cut rates 20% and then he's going to see to it that those at the top don't pay a larger share of the total tax burden. well, that means that they're going to get a huge decrease in their tax bill. that's the important element. that is the ryan/romney plan, it is to create dynastic wealth which i think would be devastating
isn't ryan supposed to be the brain of the romney campaign and we're lacking specifics? i mean, wasn't that a poor explanation? >> well, yes, and let me give you his idea of a study. he said there are six studies. three of those six studies are blog posts and one of them is by a research assistant at aei, which is one of the big ideological marketing organizations that pitch you their view of the world just the way companies advertise other products. but blog posts, those are studies that...
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. >> paul ryan set to clear any confusion about the romney/ryan ticket. >> i'm a pro-life candidate, i'll be a pro-life president. >> our position is consistent and hasn't changed. >> he can't clear up confusion on his own budget. >> i don't have the time -- it would take me too long to go through all the math. >> oh, brother. just spin already. >> i just got to ask what's your personal best? >> 1under three. >> holy smoke. >> i stand by what i said, whatever it was. >>> we are pumped up, fired up, and jacked up with just hours until tonight's first and only face-off between vice president joseph biden and vice presidential nominee paul ryan. and what was once regarded as a popcorn side show has taken on far greater significance in the wake of the president's less than scintillating performance last week. democrats are anxious, republicans are hungry for a surge, and as ryan and biden take the stage tonight, they have a chance to influence this election at a volatile moment. and the president himself knows he's got to push harder against his ever-shifting rival. speaking just moments
. >> paul ryan set to clear any confusion about the romney/ryan ticket. >> i'm a pro-life candidate, i'll be a pro-life president. >> our position is consistent and hasn't changed. >> he can't clear up confusion on his own budget. >> i don't have the time -- it would take me too long to go through all the math. >> oh, brother. just spin already. >> i just got to ask what's your personal best? >> 1under three. >> holy smoke. >> i stand...
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ryan infected by moderate massachusetts mitt romney? >> well, i think what you heard this morning when i asked him this question, and he as mitted there were differences between them but he also tried to say the differences between romney and ryan pale in comparison to the differences between the obama ticket and the romney ticket, but he seemed to indicate that ryan's job is to defend the romney plan and the romney budget. i do think what chris points out, that what biden's strategy is going to be is to try to create a split, is try to put him in an awkward position, make him defend one or the other. i think one thing to watch for tonight is it's my understanding -- from when i was talking to the campaigns, if they get one thing out of biden tonight, the obama campaign, that is to make the base of the democratic party feel better tonight, that he gets a little aggressive, that he goes after some core issues like abortion, like contraception to make the base feel better. on the ryan side, they know they sort of have in a weird way they
ryan infected by moderate massachusetts mitt romney? >> well, i think what you heard this morning when i asked him this question, and he as mitted there were differences between them but he also tried to say the differences between romney and ryan pale in comparison to the differences between the obama ticket and the romney ticket, but he seemed to indicate that ryan's job is to defend the romney plan and the romney budget. i do think what chris points out, that what biden's strategy is...
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the romney/ryan spending plan here. but last night martha raddatz's questioning and joe biden's badgering got paul ryan to disavow this plan altogether saying he does not want an increase at all despite the fact it is what he and mr. romney has been campaigning on. paul ryan broke new ground on saying how and why he and mitt romney would overturn roe v. wade and make abortion criminal. his issue on rape in particular has people going nuts today for obvious reasons. we'll be covering that in future shows. joe biden also dipped paul ryan in tar and rolled him in feathers on the issue of the stimulus. and mr. ryan's supposed principles on that issue. we talked about that moments ago with chris hayes. but there are two things that i think are hugely important to the presidential campaign that happened last night. two things that i, frankly, never thought we would get to. and that we got to and, boy, howdy, is this new territory. first was this. >> you asked, do i feel free? let me put it to you this way. i earned capital in
the romney/ryan spending plan here. but last night martha raddatz's questioning and joe biden's badgering got paul ryan to disavow this plan altogether saying he does not want an increase at all despite the fact it is what he and mr. romney has been campaigning on. paul ryan broke new ground on saying how and why he and mitt romney would overturn roe v. wade and make abortion criminal. his issue on rape in particular has people going nuts today for obvious reasons. we'll be covering that in...
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or are you running and paul ryan as part of the romney/ryan ticket? how much should we expect to hear tonight about the way paul ryan comported himself in the house of representatives? >> well, you know, rachel, mitt romney and paul ryan campaigned all throughout the state of wisconsin during the republican primaries, where mitt romney completely wrapped his arms around paul ryan's policies. paul ryan's budget. i think that is going to be a piece of the discussion tonight and i think that is, you know, part of what the american people need to decide on, whether or not they want a budget that protects tax cuts for those at the top but is cutting education, and veterans and clean energy, innovation, infrastructure, turning medicare into a voucher program. those are the types of choices that the meamerican people have before them and that will be part of the discussion tonight. >> you said earlier today, stephanie, that paul ryan and mitt romney are politicizing the attack in benghazi that killed our ambassador there. the republican national committee re
or are you running and paul ryan as part of the romney/ryan ticket? how much should we expect to hear tonight about the way paul ryan comported himself in the house of representatives? >> well, you know, rachel, mitt romney and paul ryan campaigned all throughout the state of wisconsin during the republican primaries, where mitt romney completely wrapped his arms around paul ryan's policies. paul ryan's budget. i think that is going to be a piece of the discussion tonight and i think that...
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romney -- mr. ryan came across as the better candidate for many reasons. joe biden came across to me as a tranquil man, very unlikable and very un presidential. he was staring, rude, interrupting, talking over and out of turn. a very destructive, laughing, smirking, shaking his head, -- pointing the finger, angry tone of voice. very condescending. he spoke more than ryan did by over a minute, almost two minutes more. fact checkers have already gone over the time. i thought ryan had a stronger finish, as the independent spoke earlier said, and i thought joe biden came across as having more experience and very aggressive, but over aggressive. he was not professional. he was not using decorum. a thought the moderator using the system, the format she used, seemed to interrupt ryan much more often than riot -- and biden, not letting him finish his statements. that bothers me. overall, i thought ryan had a great finish. he had a strong closing statement. i thought, overall, he did a much better job portraying himself as presidential. a polite young man. a very p
romney -- mr. ryan came across as the better candidate for many reasons. joe biden came across to me as a tranquil man, very unlikable and very un presidential. he was staring, rude, interrupting, talking over and out of turn. a very destructive, laughing, smirking, shaking his head, -- pointing the finger, angry tone of voice. very condescending. he spoke more than ryan did by over a minute, almost two minutes more. fact checkers have already gone over the time. i thought ryan had a stronger...
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paul ryan came in, had to defend mitt romney. had to prove he was president. god forbid if he was president. there wasn't a wipeout in this debate. both sides came in, thinking we'll leave prosecute what we have to do. >> let's go to our panelist, joe biden. >> show me a policy where you take responsibility. by the way, the great recession, it fell out of the sky it came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card and put a preskrichgs drug benefit on the credit card, a trillion dollar tax cut for the very wealthy. >> a quick takeaway. >> i think joe biden did do his boss a lot of help tonight. on substance, i think it was a draw. each side will draw a lot of encouragement from it. on style, i think paul ryan won the debate. and that is, the biden, the dismissive laughs, shouting, interruptions, ryan was calmer and more presidential on style, not substance. on substance, i thought it was a draw. >> it was condescending to paul ryan and i could have done with a lot less eye rolling and chuckling on the part of joe biden. however, i thought it was a gr
paul ryan came in, had to defend mitt romney. had to prove he was president. god forbid if he was president. there wasn't a wipeout in this debate. both sides came in, thinking we'll leave prosecute what we have to do. >> let's go to our panelist, joe biden. >> show me a policy where you take responsibility. by the way, the great recession, it fell out of the sky it came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card and put a preskrichgs drug benefit on the credit card, a...
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ryan may have been a smart pick for romney despite his policy positions, not because of they'll. which is to say, he's been pretty good on the stump, in terms of ginning up enthusiasm. the policy stuff may have been his achille's heel and the campaign stuff a bonus. >> ginning up enthusiasm among republicans, probably -- i don't see where the enthusiasm is for him among independents in the body politic overall. i mean the policy positions he's taken, you know, god love him, at least there's someone in washington who is going to put really hard, specific policy prescriptions on the table, the problem, though, is that they're incredibly unpopular. we've gone from the road map for america's future foote of prosperity to the house budget that the budget that the house passed that they're now all running away from because they now know that the american people don't like the policy prescriptions are there. ryan is young, in great shape, very smart. but when people talk about the specifics and what his vision is, they're not going to like it and that's why tonight is fascinating becaus
ryan may have been a smart pick for romney despite his policy positions, not because of they'll. which is to say, he's been pretty good on the stump, in terms of ginning up enthusiasm. the policy stuff may have been his achille's heel and the campaign stuff a bonus. >> ginning up enthusiasm among republicans, probably -- i don't see where the enthusiasm is for him among independents in the body politic overall. i mean the policy positions he's taken, you know, god love him, at least...
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of romney-ryan and obama-biden. that's what we're debating tonight. >> why do people watch a vice presidential debate? do they watch it for a policy debate, or do they watch it to see can these guys become president of the united states? >> this stuff is always anecdotal. it's like sports. people have an opinion out of these debates. i think about it more as this month. these few weeks, the debate phase of the campaign. up until now, the entire campaign is about tv ads, surrogates arguing on televis n television, media pundits providing the analysis. and what was striking about last week's debate between governor romney and president obama, first time 90 minutes unfiltered, these two men going face to face, challenging one another. that's what this is about. it's just about suddenly we get to see the two leaders, in this case, the two vps. >> sort of philosophical. just part two of this philosophical debate. >> correct. it's the only moment in the campaign. last week 70 million viewers. this week, who knows how many
of romney-ryan and obama-biden. that's what we're debating tonight. >> why do people watch a vice presidential debate? do they watch it for a policy debate, or do they watch it to see can these guys become president of the united states? >> this stuff is always anecdotal. it's like sports. people have an opinion out of these debates. i think about it more as this month. these few weeks, the debate phase of the campaign. up until now, the entire campaign is about tv ads, surrogates...
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biden was defending the middle class while ryan was defending romney. biden's greatest asset was his passion though he might have been over the top. it was possible for a viewer to conclude that he was simply passionate about the middle class. take a look at joe biden early in the debate going after romney on his 47% comments. >> but it shouldn't be surprising for a guy who says 47% of the american people are unwilling to take responsibility for their own lives. my friend recently in a speech in washington said 30% of the american people are takers. these people are my mom and dad, the people i grew up with, my neighbors. they pay more effective tax than governor romney pays in his federal income tax. i have had it up to here with this notion that 47% -- it's about time they take some responsibility here, and instead of signing pledges to grover norquist not to ask the wealthiest among us to contribute to bring back the middle class, they should be signing a pledge saying to the middle class, we're going to level the playing field. >> joe klein, that's
biden was defending the middle class while ryan was defending romney. biden's greatest asset was his passion though he might have been over the top. it was possible for a viewer to conclude that he was simply passionate about the middle class. take a look at joe biden early in the debate going after romney on his 47% comments. >> but it shouldn't be surprising for a guy who says 47% of the american people are unwilling to take responsibility for their own lives. my friend recently in a...
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now we're coming up to romney and ryan. not this debate specifically coming after president obama's gaffe before. >> that was a big thing for everybody here in the room. this was a big debate obviously because of president obama's performance last time. glen, that's why you paid a lot of attention here tonight, correct? >> yes, i think biden came on real strong and confident. i think he needed to do that because obama's performance last week was disappointing. >> and do you think the president will be up to it now that the bar's been raised next week? >> we'll see. >> you're still undecided. >> yes. >> sam, you're still undecided. you gave me an answer earlier. you said, you know, they've been running for president for months and months and months. you have the internet, newspapers, radio, tv. you're getting bombarded by ads here. why can't you make up your mind? >> as i said before, we work for a living. you know, a lot of us get up at 4:00 a.m., go to work for 12, 14 hours. we're at home with our kids. we're not doing thi
now we're coming up to romney and ryan. not this debate specifically coming after president obama's gaffe before. >> that was a big thing for everybody here in the room. this was a big debate obviously because of president obama's performance last time. glen, that's why you paid a lot of attention here tonight, correct? >> yes, i think biden came on real strong and confident. i think he needed to do that because obama's performance last week was disappointing. >> and do you...
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big jump, 4 out of 5 polls, mitt romney and paul ryan lead. have you big poll numbers in florida and virginia, showing people in just a second. abc and cbs admits the ticket is gaining ground, post debate. nbc, no, not much of an impact at ms-nbc. >> florida, ohio and virginia, battleground states. what we see on the screen, a tight, tight, dead heat in florida and in virginia. in ohio, you still see the president hanging on to a lead. i guess you could say that romney has the trend line, but ohio is still a problem. >> another factor in all three of these polls, over 90% said the debate made no difference. 6, 7 and 7% respectively who said the debates mattered to their vote. that is, not as helpful to romney as he might have hoped. >> the debate has not as much of an impact. >> sean: i was thinking that if joe biden loses and 25 day, i am thinking that nbc news -- it's a perfect place for an unhinged, over-the-top, extreme leftist. he would be perfect over there. >> chuck todd, the political director of nbc news labeled the rasmussen poll, qu
big jump, 4 out of 5 polls, mitt romney and paul ryan lead. have you big poll numbers in florida and virginia, showing people in just a second. abc and cbs admits the ticket is gaining ground, post debate. nbc, no, not much of an impact at ms-nbc. >> florida, ohio and virginia, battleground states. what we see on the screen, a tight, tight, dead heat in florida and in virginia. in ohio, you still see the president hanging on to a lead. i guess you could say that romney has the trend line,...